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Question on colors for images

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Top 500 Contributor
West Coast of Florida
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Jimmy Hill posted on Thu, Oct 18 2012 12:38

The kind of graphics I do are used for a web site and also for printing with a Roland Versacamm wide format printer.

My question is for graphics for a web site do you design in RGB colors and when you design for printing are you using CMYK colors.

Or are you using one type of color over the other for both purposes?

 

                                                                    Thanks Jimmy

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Top 10 Contributor
Sweden
Male
Verified by Nasko

We had a long discussion about this earlier this year.

Personally I prefer to work in CMYK, and you've been given a few reasons why from the others.
Many users prefer RGB, and it may also theoretically give a better color representation.
You must remember though, that you will never be able to print all the colors you see on screen and export to web, on your Roland Printer CMYK, not even near.
Therefore I suggest that you either work in CMYK from the start, which will create reasonably accurate printing results, or that you work in RGB and with Proof Colors enabled in Draw, this to simulate what can actually be printed. If you don't, you'll most likely be disappointed with the printing result.

Edit: I see now that you were the original poster in the thread I linked to. Were you not satisfied with the answer?

/Ronny

“The ability to think differently today from yesterday distinguishes the wise man from the stubborn”
John Steinbeck

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Top 10 Contributor
Lancaster, PA USA
Male

Ronny Axelsson:
So, unfortunately, this is as far as I get, and I am still not persuaded that using RGB is the way to go. I need proof.

 

Ok  so far I see that the input profile is sRGB and the input profile is swop.

Also try using pure colors and make sure that you use sRGB in CorelDARW when creating.

What pops up when you click condition management?

David Milisock

Top 10 Contributor
Sweden
Male

David Milisock:
Also try using pure colors and make sure that you use sRGB in CorelDARW when creating.
In my test files, I did.
David Milisock:
What pops up when you click condition management?
It is for creating predefined settings for different materials. The settings in Color Edit are among the ones we can preset, but there's no way to use embedded profiles in there either.

/Ronny

“The ability to think differently today from yesterday distinguishes the wise man from the stubborn”
John Steinbeck

Top 10 Contributor
Lancaster, PA USA
Male

Send me your privat e-mail and I'll send a proper gray balance test image to you.

David Milisock

Top 10 Contributor
Sweden
Male

Thanks David, I've sent you an e-mail.

What I would like to see is a scanned image of what you get when you print, for example the 12 color test file I posted earlier.
How does it look when it is printed properly? Anyone?

/Ronny

“The ability to think differently today from yesterday distinguishes the wise man from the stubborn”
John Steinbeck

Top 10 Contributor
Sweden
Male

Since no one has been able to show me any proof that RGB will actually be better (give a better result with substantially more accurate and vivid colors) also when printing to a CMYK printer, I will now put this to a rest.
Still believing that it is easier to use CMYK all the way, and that the end result will be as good it can be.
If anyone still thinks differently, please convince me.

/Ronny

“The ability to think differently today from yesterday distinguishes the wise man from the stubborn”
John Steinbeck

Top 10 Contributor
Pigeon Forge, TN
Male
TAG - gdgmacros.com

Ronny Axelsson:
Since no one has been able to show me any proof that RGB will actually be better (give a better result with substantially more accurate and vivid colors) also when printing to a CMYK printer, I will now put this to a rest.

Sure seems like common sense to me.

~John

Visit me at my GDGMacros website anytime!

Join me on Facebook to stay up to date with GDGMacros, Tips and Tricks for VBA Automation in CorelDraw, Discounts, specials, Free code and macros, and more cool sometimes not so relevant posts!

Top 10 Contributor
Lancaster, PA USA
Male

RunFlaCruiser:
Sure seems like common sense to me.

 Not really it's just not possible to prove to you if what you print to is a CMYK  printer.  However if you use a non-swop hue 6 or eight color device with a properly prepared ICC media profile than the result hands down is repeatable and superior.

RunFlaCruiser:
(give a better result with substantially more accurate and vivid colors)

Here begs the issue, what is better and what is more accurate?

Better is subjective and so is accurate.  What is better?  How can accurate be an issue when the result of printing RGB to any device 4,6 or 8 colors has to be different, specifically when the hue used for (lets's say pure blue) cannot possibly match a monitor since there is not standard for the blue hues used in displays.

Now comes the better, I'm currently doing a 300 labels to be mounted on 4.5" x 2.5" aluminum plaques for a manufacturer.  Unfortunately the only graphics they have were designed by some yo-yo for the web and what makes it even worse is that it is a medium bright orange.

If converted in CorelDRAW to CMYK the orange gets muddy and properly so as this is a proper Pantone/ICC controled conversion to a specific CMYK profile.  However if I allow the sRGB file content to convert via the RIP directly to the media profile the result is a more bright orange color.  This is still correct per the ICC as the conversion is to the media profile which has a wider gamut than the press CMYK can produce a more pleasing conversion.

Wil pure R,G or B print correctly?  No!  Will RGB colors that are out of gamutr for standard CMYK colors print in a more pleasing and brilliant manner?  You bet!  Will the process be repeatable?  Absolutely.

Now having canned media profiles, improperly created media profiles or media profiles created in a manner that does not maintian pure colors will screw up the results.

The isse is that there is not correct way to convert a large gamut color model to a small gamut color model, all processes are subjective.  It's like putting a big butt into a too small pair of jeans.  The result could be fantastic or repulsive depending on your taste.

 

David Milisock

Top 10 Contributor
Lancaster, PA USA
Male

I've been trying to figure a way to demonstrate in mass (globally) the process of designing in RGB and outputting to an ink jet or digital printer so that users can grasp the pros and cons, it won't be for everyone.  Much of it has been covered in the past with my writing on what I call expanded gamut printing which has been supported by CorelDRAW since X3.  At that time only in CorelDRAW published PDF but since X5 in EPS, Distiller published PDF as well as CorelDRAW published PDF.

First the caveats,

those who use CMYK only may not benefit from this, printing presses are out, some ink jets and digital print engines may be excluded too, the test will determine that

those who have a RIP that will not allow the use of RGB and CMYK profiles simultaneously will have to use extra steps to test the effects

Non-postscript driver based devices only work RGB so the test is irrelevant

Those who use canned media profiles may be ay a disadvantage, a gray balance, pure hue, test for your media profile is mandatory, an understanding that pure RGB CMYK hues will shift somwhat because of pure gamut and the ink pigment not being standardized is also required.

Stay tuned I'll locate a good test image and create some files, as the files will be large I'll post them on my web site for down load and post instruction here.

David Milisock

Top 10 Contributor
Pigeon Forge, TN
Male
TAG - gdgmacros.com

HI.

A video would be awesome.

~John

Visit me at my GDGMacros website anytime!

Join me on Facebook to stay up to date with GDGMacros, Tips and Tricks for VBA Automation in CorelDraw, Discounts, specials, Free code and macros, and more cool sometimes not so relevant posts!

Top 10 Contributor
Lancaster, PA USA
Male

RunFlaCruiser:
A video would be awesome

Well you're not getting a video because I haven't decided on a video capture software yet and quite frankly I've been too busy with installs.  With that said I am interested in hearing your suggestions on a video capture software.

Please go to www.graphictechnology.com/test/ to download a zip file with a CorelDRAW X6 file, color managed CorelDRAW and Distiller published PDF files and a CorelDRAW color managed EPS file for output.  The file contains test swatches in sRGB, grayscale and CMYK, also sRGB and uswebcoated cmyk versions of images.

CORELDRAW DEFAULT APPLICATION COLOR MANAGEMENT MUST BE SET TO USE THE EMBEDDED ICC PROFILES, NO COLOR CONVERSIONS

First see if you can see the difference on the display, print the file, it is an 8.5" x 11"

Set the device for sRGB, uswebcoated cmyk, see if you can see the difference.  Some of you won't see it on th eprint, some will see it on diplay but not the print, others will see the difference on both display and print

 


David Milisock

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