ripping/printing wierdness from corel x4 to roland versaworks

hi everybody. i have an issue that is stumping me!!

i work in corel x4 and export powercliped artwork for printing on our roland xp300v using versaworks

I will do my layouts in corel to save material, then export all this as a eps file (as rgb or cmyk, depending on the type of file) and open and print in versaworks. this works wonderfully. Most of the time. Then sometimes i powerclip a jpg and do my layouts for instance 3 of the same thing copy and pasted to fit into the required width... then ONE of these will print in another colour!

i don't get it! its the same file as all the others, it cannot be the only one with another colour profile. its ONE eps file!!

i thought it might be the exporting process or the ripping process, but just now i had the same problem, and deleted the file in roland, and re-exported the whole thing from corel and re-ripped and to make the changes complete i flipped the file so the bottom is at the top.

and it did exactly the bloody same thing! the same logo, at the bottom in stead of the top printed differently

somebody have ANY idea what the heck is going on?

15 Replies - Latest Reply

  • lunanoir
    I will do my layouts in corel to save material, then export all this as a eps file (as rgb or cmyk, depending on the type of file) and open and print in versaworks. this works wonderfully. Most of the time.

    In the EPS format, vector shapes with RGB fills are always converted to CMYK.
     
    You can choose RGB or CMYK for bitmaps, but the one you choose applies to all color bitmaps in your export. So, if you have mixed modes in your document, they will be converted to the one you choose. (grayscale stays grayscale though)
     
    I always convert bitmaps to CMYK right inside DRAW (my choice). My sp540v is 4 color CMYK only, and I'm quite happy with the colors.

    lunanoir
    Then sometimes I powerclip a jpg and do my layouts for instance 3 of the same thing copy and pasted to fit into the required width... then ONE of these will print in another colour!

    This seems very odd... maybe upload a small CDR here or somewhere and we can check it.

    FWIW, there's no such thing as a jpeg inside CorelDRAW. Bitmaps brought into CorelDRAW simply become generic pixels.


    [edited by: Jeff Harrison at 15:29 (GMT -5) on Mon, Nov 30 2009]
  • In reply to Jeff Harrison:

    well what i can do is take a picture of the print or scan it. i have a big job with an a4 sized print that i've set up and filled the holes and everything with smaller logos and now this happens to one of the a4 prints.I can't print 32 logos with one out of every 4 unusable.

    will make a little montage tomorrow when i am at work and it happens again.

    it sure has me stumped. but i will take your advice about the converting everything to cmyk and see if this has any effect. This might not be corel's fault at all, it could be versaworks ripping it wrong. This happens only to some of the powerclipped rasters and never to a vector.

    I am also a noob with regards to the finer nuances of the printing process (yes i got the job because i can trace logos... meh) so any help will be appreciated.

     

  • Let me make sure I'm reading your problem correctly. Are you saying that
    you are opening your EPS in Versaworks. Setting the multiples (copies)
    to 3 and that one of those is printing a different color? That sounds
    like a RIP problem and not a Corel problem.

    Or are you saying that you are setting up your graphic, making 3 copies
    of it and exporting that as one EPS? This could be a Corel problem but I
    would probably need to see a copy of the file to be sure.

    Steve
    www.brutefish.com



    lunanoir wrote:
    > hi everybody. i have an issue that is stumping me!!
    >
    > i work in corel x4 and export powercliped artwork for printing on our
    > roland xp300v using versaworks
    >
    > I will do my layouts in corel to save material, then export all this as
    > a eps file (as rgb or cmyk, depending on the type of file) and open and
    > print in versaworks. this works wonderfully. Most of the time. Then
    > sometimes i powerclip a jpg and do my layouts for instance 3 of the same
    > thing copy and pasted to fit into the required width... then ONE of
    > these will print in another colour!
    >
    > i don't get it! its the same file as all the others, it cannot be the
    > only one with another colour profile. its ONE eps file!!
    >
    > i thought it might be the exporting process or the ripping process, but
    > just now i had the same problem, and deleted the file in roland, and
    > re-exported the whole thing from corel and re-ripped and to make the
    > changes complete i flipped the file so the bottom is at the top.
    >
    > and it did exactly the bloody same thing! the same logo, at the bottom
    > in stead of the top printed differently
    >
    > somebody have ANY idea what the heck is going on?
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > http://community.coreldraw.com/forums/p/17199/72847.aspx#72847
    >
  • In reply to lunanoir:

    lunanoir
    it sure has me stumped. but i will take your advice about the converting everything to cmyk and see if this has any effect. This might not be corel's fault at all, it could be versaworks ripping it wrong. This happens only to some of the powerclipped rasters and never to a vector.

    OK, keep an eye out and let us know.

  • In reply to Brute-Fish:

    no i'm making my layouts as i would print them in versaworks cos i like corel more for creating this final print layout than versaworks.

    its the same corel graphic, that i copy and paste and rotate to fit the width of the material, then i take this and export it out of corel as a .eps file. so its all the same graphic. then i take this single .eps file and open it in versaworks and print it. then one of these are a different colour. almost like one of them is cmyk and the others rgb. 

    i export as rgb mostly.. maybe that is the problem? i will do a test and convert all to cmyk before exporting. I'll let you know how that turns out, but time is getting a bit tight now. DEADLINES LOOMING.

    i have a file i can show you, but its a tad big. do you want the .eps or the corel file?

  • In reply to lunanoir:

    Just a wild guess, may be may be it's a Color Management related issue, David is the best person to verify that but you can try by setting the color management settings to defaults.

  • In reply to lunanoir:

    lunanoir
    no i'm making my layouts as i would print them in versaworks cos i like corel more for creating this final print layout than versaworks.

    I work the sme way... much easier to control nesting. Also, sometimes I lay out as shown in animation, to reduce amount of cutlines.

    One tip: for small decals, I'll set up a single row of them in Draw about the width of printable area. Perhaps 20 per row... whatever fits. Then I'll tile that in Versaworks downwards. Works great. I just completed an order for $9,200.00 this way. :-)

    lunanoir
    i export as rgb mostly.. maybe that is the problem?

    All I can say... I've had bad experiences with that, colors on bitmaps look totally washed out and unusable compared to CMYK with the setup I use.

    lunanoir
    i have a file i can show you, but its a tad big. do you want the .eps or the corel file?

    Corel file will be smaller most likely. You may need to post on a server somewhere and send a link.. Convert fonts inside to curves or embed them in the document using TrueDoc.



    [edited by: Jeff Harrison at 4:08 (GMT -5) on Tue, Dec 1 2009]
  • In reply to Jeff Harrison:

    http://cindy.metalsoup.com/files/example_of_corel_file_with_print_wierdness.cdr


    ok here is the corel file, with a pic of the actual print taken with my cell and 'n screen cap of my export settings.

    hope this helps.

  • In reply to lunanoir:

    ok. i think i found out why its doing this

    i converted al my bmps to cmyk like jeff said, and exported as cmyk and did a small test. it printed perfectly. everything the same colour

    then i thought well, what bout the cmyk bmps exported as rgb and when i printed it, one of the suckers were a different colour.

    Now the big question is why this happens? why export 3 out of 4 logos perfectly, but the last one has to be a different colour? why not all of them?

    anywho, thanx jeff for the cmyk converting hint. Though I'm pretty sure i've had reasons why i don't bother with cmyk... probably ignorance lol

     

  • In reply to lunanoir:

    I'm glad you got it worked out but I have no clue why the problem was
    there to begin with. My workflow uses RGB but I publish to PDF for
    Versaworks. I only use EPS when a cutline is involved. Happy printing!

    Steve
    www.brutefish.com


    lunanoir wrote:
    > ok. i think i found out why its doing this
    >
    > i converted al my bmps to cmyk like jeff said, and exported as cmyk and
    > did a small test. it printed perfectly. everything the same colour
    >
    > then i thought well, what bout the cmyk bmps exported as rgb and when i
    > printed it, one of the suckers were a different colour.
    >
    > Now the big question is why this happens? why export 3 out of 4 logos
    > perfectly, but the last one has to be a different colour? why not all of
    > them?
    >
    > anywho, thanx jeff for the cmyk converting hint. Though I'm pretty sure
    > i've had reasons why i don't bother with cmyk... probably ignorance lol
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > http://community.coreldraw.com/forums/p/17199/72905.aspx#72905
    >
  • In reply to Brute-Fish:

    thank you too brute for diverting some of your brainwaves to my conundrum.

    I need to use .eps cos i have only prints with cut lines for the logos we put on garments and the printed vinyl for stickers.

    pardon my ignorance but what would you print on a roland with a pdf that doesn't need cutting? I've been doing this for bout 2 years and only know my little bit of the industry.

  • In reply to lunanoir:

    I'm in the sign industry so the majority of my printing is for large
    prints (ie. 4' x 8' project signs on adhesive backed vinyl or billboards
    on flex material). I also do lots of 18" x 24" coroplast yard signs. The
    kind with the little wire h-stakes that say "My kid goes to Whatever
    Elementary" or "Apartments For Rent". I gang them up as 4' x 8' prints,
    use the laminator to apply the whole print to a full sheet of coroplast
    and cut them out by hand using an exacto. Quick and easy.

    I usually set up runs that take a whole roll of vinyl (54" x 164'). My
    Roland can print up to 101" in width so I rarely do anything small like
    decals or stickers. It's a true production machine. I waste almost 4' of
    material just loading the vinyl through the tension bars. There are so
    many uses for large format printers in the sign industry that it's
    ridiculous.

    Steve
    www.brutefish.com

    lunanoir wrote:
    > thank you too brute for diverting some of your brainwaves to my conundrum.
    >
    > I need to use .eps cos i have only prints with cut lines for the logos
    > we put on garments and the printed vinyl for stickers.
    >
    > pardon my ignorance but what would you print on a roland with a pdf that
    > doesn't need cutting? I've been doing this for bout 2 years and only
    > know my little bit of the industry.
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > http://community.coreldraw.com/forums/p/17199/72917.aspx#72917
    >
  • In reply to lunanoir:

    lunanoir
    i converted al my bmps to cmyk like jeff said, and exported as cmyk and did a small test. it printed perfectly. everything the same colour

    excellent...

    lunanoir
    then i thought well, what bout the cmyk bmps exported as rgb and when i printed it, one of the suckers were a different colour.

    non-excellent...

    lunanoir
    Now the big question is why this happens? why export 3 out of 4 logos perfectly, but the last one has to be a different colour? why not all of them?

    shrug... no idea...

    lunanoir
    anywho, thanx jeff for the cmyk converting hint.

    Glad to help.

    NOW... let's talk about your file. ;-)

    Have a look at the difference in the below...

    1. modern photo
    2. text kept as vectors for best clarity (in cdr file)
    3. more interesting color scheme
    4. no powerclip needed, only cut line
    5. corner roundness fixed

    I suggest to output in high-quality mode only for small decals like this

    EPS settings. No header needed. You're creating a massive one at 300 DPI when exporting. I think Versaworks renders it's own sample anyway.

    Objects: send Bitmaps as: change to CMYK IMO

     



    [edited by: Jeff Harrison at 5:01 (GMT -5) on Wed, Dec 2 2009]
  • In reply to Jeff Harrison:

    lol yes i know this logo bites, but this is their corporate id and i have the roland so i get files to print from our other branch so its not my job really to fix their ugly logos or her cruddy cutlines, though i do, but they had the deadline from hell so this was a real rush job and it shows.

    you should've seen the other logos that went with this! low res pixelated images. squashed logos.

    some times clients need to be saved from themselves eh? Smile

  • In reply to lunanoir:

    lunanoir
    you should've seen the other logos that went with this! low res pixelated images. squashed logos.

    Yeah, I've seen similar things come to the shops I freelance at also. It's such a waste. I've seen 10,000 printing jobs where the artwork was garbage, but the client was proud of what they designed.

    lunanoir
    some times clients need to be saved from themselves eh?

    I'm actually quite firm with customers these days. Here's why: when the marketing campaign FAILS because of the garbage artwork, I want them to realize why it failed. So some fast strategies to get the point across in a diplomatic way:

    1. Show the difference between amateur and professional art, such as these labels (and other projects also). Ask for their opinion on which ones are better, as this empowers them. They'll look at their own project they are about to print - and hopefully be honest with themselves. They should rightfully sense that their art is just not good enough, and could be damaging to their image to even send.
    2. describe a story where a customer went ahead with their art anyway, and the campaign failed. You're using the learning experience of a previous and similar scenario, in order to save your new customer. You're not confronting them, you're referencing someone else's failure.

    At the end of the day, you want this order and the money.

    But, I'll tell you this: by caring about the customer's goals, they'll respect you for your advice, and this leads to a business relationship that can last decades. That's where the real money is, not just one sale that you jam through the system for a quick buck. You avoid the: "You guys are the printing professionals, you should have told me!"