Red X markings appear

I'm posting on behalf of my mother, a Ventura 10 user. She asks:

Sometimes when I draw frames inside each other, or overlapping, a red X appears over the entire page, and all text on following pages disappears.
Usually if I delete the offending frames all is well again.
This time I have page 7 in a file showing an irremovable red X. I did move frames around in a foolish way, one complete with pic & caption coming right down over the footer. I have managed to delete that pic and caption frame, but the big red X rermains immovable, and I have lost all text on the following several pages.

Can anyone please offer any thoughts or suggestions?

Many thanks

Aidan

eweber over 10 years ago

Aidan --

The big red X indicates a formatting error. More specifically, a situation where text is on the background page or a in frame, but it cannot be formatted because there isn't enough room to fit anything given the current settings.

If 1) there is exposed live space on a page, and 2) but due to the presence of one or more frames, there is not enough space to accommodate text flowing on the base page, V10 displays a Red X and all text flow and pagination stops until the conditions creating the Red X have been resolved. When you see a Red X, select the page (or frame) displaying the X and access the Context Menu by clicking the right mouse button. You will see a "Format Error" menu item. Click this for an explanation of the problem and suggested fixes. Sometimes, the suggested fix is illogical so use your own judgment whether or not to apply it. (For example, reducing the interline spacing of a paragraph by 11.65pts may eliminate the red X, but the paragraph thus adjusted will probably be unreadable.)

In the case where the red X is on the base page, the solution I favor is applying an outside margin to one or more of the overlaying frames so that there is no room available on the base page for text to flow. This forces the base page text onto the next page.

When the red X is in a frame, then check for overlapping frames and check inside and outside margins on all frames to see what's preventing text from flowing in the frame.

Hope that makes sense.
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Aidan Bell over 10 years ago in reply to eweber

Many thanks indeed, Eweber. I've passed all that onto my elderly mother, I'll let you know how she gets on!
Cheers.
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Aidan Bell over 10 years ago in reply to Aidan Bell

Just to give you some feedback: My mother is in her late 70s so both the problem and your kind solutions are a little complicated for her, and although I'm computer literate I've never used Ventura, so it's all new to me. However I think she has made some progress, and once again we are both very grateful for your help.
Cheers.
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Aidan Bell over 10 years ago in reply to eweber

My poor Mum's getting into a terrible fix with all this! And because I don't know the program at all I'm not able to offer her much assistance.

I'm attaching two screenshots. One shows the Red Cross, the second the "Fix Format Error" window.

Presumably the paragraph referred to the is the one that stops unexpectedly on the page above? (Everything below has disappeared.) I've tried selecting that paragraph and reducing the inter-line space (under Paragraph Tag Properties) but that had no effect (other than repositioning the text on the page above.

My Mum writes "So all I have is an apparently blank page, page 6 in a 12-page file, on which no text can be placed. I can draw frames on it, and insert pictures in them; but what I want to do is let the text flow onto it from page 5, and not lose all the following pages. "

Any other thoughts or suggestions you might be able to offer would be very gratefully received. Thank you.
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eweber over 10 years ago in reply to Aidan Bell

Aidan --

I understand the frustration for both of you (been in both positions myself before).

Before I go on, let me give a bit more background on Format Errors and why they occur. Ventura allows us to set a lot of rule for how various things are handled in a publication, including widows and orphans, column balance, vertical justification, hyphenation, keeping lines together, keeping paragraph types together, spacing before/after/within paragraphs, etc. etc. Needless to say, in any given publication, this can be a very complex set of rules. A Format Error can occur when you have a combination of rules colliding with each other in such a way that Ventura isn't sure how to place the text (and other elements) on the page.

So, for example, if you have several paragraphs that are designated "Keep with next" under Breaks, which forces them all to stay on the same page, but there's so many of them that they will not actually fit on a single page, this would cause a Format Error.

In your mom's case, I suspect the formatting error is being triggered somewhere within the text that won't appear on page 6.

So, with that background, let me suggest two things you can do that may make it easier to sort out the problem. As with all things like this, leep a backup of the publication in case something goes wrong, so you can always get back to your starting point.

First, try this. Open the publication, navigate to page 3 or 4, and then add a half page of paragraph returns into the text flow on the base page. Sometimes, this shifts the text around on subsequent pages enough to solve the formatting conundrum the program is having. If so, then you can often remove the paragraph returns you inserted, save the publication and the problem will go away. (Sounds like magic, but it does actually work.)

Second, make sure there are no frames on page 6. If so, delete them for now, you can put them back later. (Frames just add one more layer of complexity to the formatting conundrum.) In fact, sometimes, if you have a frame that leaves just a bit of "formattable" space on the base page, but not enough to actually fit any text, it can cause a Format Error.

Third, you could do something similar to the first suggestion by cutting some of the text within the first 5 pages to force the subsequent text to reflow differently. In this case, just make sure you save the cut text somewhere so you can put it back afterwards.

Last, you could try this. Go to page 5, plant your cursor in the base page text flow. Switch to Text Editor view. Can you see the remaining text? Usually the answer is "yes." If so, cut and paste the text into a new publication with the same stylesheet. Then try adding it back a little at a time.

In all of these cases, you'll have to use a little trial and error and be patient, but the text is probably there. It's just a matter of coaxing Ventura to a place where it can figure out how to get the text onto the page under the current rules you have set up.

Hope that helps. If not, let me know and I'll have a look at the VP file.
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