When I open CDPaint RGB White appears yellowish. However, when I open CDDraw RGB White is white and when I then select Edit Bitmap from Draw and CDPaint opens, now RGB White is true white.
I've selected RGB profiles for the default and document profiles. I've also selected the North American Prepress presets. I running Windows Vista with a high quality Samsung flat screen.
How can CDPaint White look yellowish when Paint is opened from the desktop but display as true white when opened from CDDraw? When the two instances of Paint are open side by side on the desktop and displaying the same image, the same colors display differently.
Hi Vic,
If you have CorelDRAW Graphics Suite X5, try to see if there are any differences in the Colour Management settings. If you open both programs side by side, try look in both programs Colour Management Default as well as document settings. Its located under Tools | Color Management >See if there are any odd color profiles being used for the screen.
I dont say this will solve it, but worth a first try in troubleshooting.Here is a link to screen shots of the settings on my blog (english language) http://stefanlindblad-english.blogspot.com/2010/11/coreldraw-graphics-suite.html
I have definately identified the Samsung monitor ICC color profile as the cause of the yellow tinted whites. I fixed the problem by deleting it from the system color management profile. Vista kept reloading it even though I had set the generic RGB profile as the default.
The interesting thing is that Paint displayed tinted whites but when Paint was launched from Draw, White was snow-white. This is true even when al three applications are side by side on the desktop. I have a good screen shot of this.
Thanks
VicScorpio
Vic Andersen said:Vista kept reloading it even though I had set the generic RGB profile as the default.
Vic Andersen said:The interesting thing is that Paint displayed tinted whites but when Paint was launched from Draw, White was snow-white.
Color management architecture of CGS guarantees that the same monitor color profile is used by both apps at any time, there is no way to change that. This is why I am skeptical the Samsung monitor ICC profile is the only culprit here. Check what RGB color profile your Draw document is using.
Gennady
Gennady Petrov said:Never heard about such thing and never experienced it myself.
Vista and Windows 7 CM dialogs are complex and I've seen it where the user thought they changed it and I've seen serious conflicts with video card control software big time.
David Milisock said:Vista and Windows 7 CM dialogs are complex and I've seen it where the user thought they changed
David Milisock said:I've seen serious conflicts with video card control software big time
Gennady Petrov said:While personally I do not think this dialog is complex I agree there are plenty of opportunities to make a mistake there.
You may be overestimating the average persons ability.
Gennady Petrov said:This is something I have not seen either, and I work with different video cards
Ok early on in the Visat cycle with Nvidia control panel there was in my opinion a bug with that software that would not allow you to either neutralize it or to disable it in the system, which needs to bew done for calibration. With my system that has since been rectified with an update from Nvidia. When the OS would restart the video card control panel would over ride the OS. I tested it by setting a custom profile in Windows and an un-natural setting in Nvidia then rebooting, As you watch the reboot you can see Windows load the ICC profile for the display. Many times it would use the video card control settings, this also happened with the authorization of a command. This was called a Vista bug by the MAC color gurus but in reality it was a video card issue on my system.
In my opinion the reluctance of people to do updates could be an issue and this ICC profile loading from an update is not helping things.
I was not aware of this particular bug, the only CM bug that I know was in the Vista is related to UAC ( User Account Control ). As soon as UAC pops up it would disable gamma curve settings that were set in the video card software by the ICM/WCS. This looks extremely close to what you are describing and it was resolved with Vista SP1. I am not sure there are a lot of people sloppy enough to still run Vista without even SP1 installed after all these years. Well, if they do - they pretty much deserve their fate.
I am also not sure how serious this issue is. There is surprisingly widespread myth that it is ICC color profile that is loaded into the video card at system startup which somehow enables color management in OS. People see desktop colors shift when they calibrate the monitor and than when restarting the system and assume this must be display color management. It is not. Windows has absolutely no color management on the system level, color management is the responsibility of the individual applications, be it Corel Draw, Windows Photo Gallery or Adobe Acrobat, etc. All that OS does it loads so called gamma tag ( i.e. color temperature and gamma curve ) from the ICC monitor color profile into the video card. It merely configures video card into more optimal configuration so less color values modification has to be made in the profile-based color correction individual apps do afterwards. It does not make non-color managed application like Windows desktop, Windows Explorer or IE color managed ones. If video card software overrides display gamma tag all that is required is to profile monitor in the state it will work all the time. Whether this state is for default video card settings or for gamma curve settings loaded from the ICC profile - does not matter that much, a little bit of more numbers shifting in former case for color management engines. Regardless of Vista bugs this is exactly a situation with absolute majority of laptops - their on-board video controllers usually do not support gamma tag loading from ICC profile. Never prevented them from working correctly with CM, this is just less optimal situation and there are less chances color engines are able to compensate for severe changes to brightness/color temperature settings some users set in they video-card/monitor.
Gennady Petrov said:If video card software overrides display gamma tag all that is required is to profile monitor in the state it will work all the time.
This may be what I was seeing, the GAMMA tag override but SP1 did not resolve the video card reboot issue that took an update from Nvidia. But as you said that was a very long time ago in computer terms, 2 years maybe.
Gennady Petrov said: ......... Windows has absolutely no color management on the system level, color management is the responsibility of the individual applications, be it Corel Draw, Windows Photo Gallery or Adobe Acrobat, etc. ......................... Gennady
......... Windows has absolutely no color management on the system level, color management is the responsibility of the individual applications, be it Corel Draw, Windows Photo Gallery or Adobe Acrobat, etc. .........................
Hi Gennady,
I notice you mentioned Windows Photo Gallery. In Windows 7 that was replaced by the downloadable Windows Live Photo Gallery - do you know if that is colour managed? I ask this because when I process images in my RAW editing software and embed a profile - they open accurately in Photo-Paint, but look too dark in Windows Photo Viewer, Windows Live Photo Gallery, etc., especially the blacks.
Best regards,Brian.
Hi Brian,
Yes, Windows Live Photo Gallery and Windows Photo Viewer are color managed applications and do perform monitor color correction, at least in the main view. Live Photo Gallery thumbnail view is not color managed. There is an easy way to check what is and what is not color managed on Windows - extract attached color profile and select it as a primary display color profile in Windows Color Management control panel, then restart your applications. If you see red and blue colors swapped in the app - it does have display color correction, no swapping means there is no color management.Having said that, Adobe software ( including Lightroom, CS applications, Camera RAW and Acrobat line ) have Black Point Compensation ( BPC ) mechanism enabled for display, it is not exposed in UI and one can not switch it off. What it does it attempts to bring black colors into the range where no black level clamping happens, so image black details are preserved. CGS apps do not have BPC but use Perceptual rendering intent for display, which has very similar, often indistinguishable, effect to BPC. Windows Live Gallery, Windows Photo Viewer, and many other color managed applications use Relative Colorimetric rendering intent for display instead, which is considered more "pure" but causes black levels clamping and generally causes more contrast look in dark areas. This is one of those areas in color management where both approaches have their "pros" and "cons" and there is no standard or clearly preferable way of doing things. To make situation even less straightforward - very often display color profiles simply do not include Perceptual rendering intent table and the Relative Colorimetric intent is used instead.
Bottom line - sometimes, and I have to stress it - sometimes, you would see minor difference in the dark areas comparing CGS and Windows Live Photo gallery. For most users they will see exactly the same in both apps, plus/minus 1-2 RGB color value due to different rounding in color conversions which is close to impossible to detect with naked eye.