I write this message for all corel users. In my company i use corel and i use creative suite cs5 for one year and creative CC for one month. Adobe have a grate products but i think there are a lot of programs and one persone can't use all. I find my corel x4 more quickley than illustrator/indesign cc 64 bit. I spend one day for paginate eight pages with illustrator and three hours with Corel. I studies many hours indesign and illustrator but i think almost people have requirement that adobe promotes, it's only a business move. I hope Corel continue to developer this software with this policy and best each distribution. A good graphic using adobe but does not have the ideas in head will never make big plans!!
Tomasi Matttia said:I hope Corel continue to developer this software with this policy and best each distribution.
I use CDR from 2008 and in my opinion as i saw, Corel not invest in cdr developing much. From version x4 i saw some changes ,but not big changes. Only the character formating and the color management are changed, in rest just modified. Export and pdf problems appears in x6 like in x4, no free video tutorials to understand color management in x5, x6 ,CorelDraw masters not handle professional the serious problems like eps exporting or pdf publishing, or the bugs ,they reject all or handle indifferent ,they do not like the criticism :) etc... In graphic design industry (professional print companys) as i saw Adobe products are more preferably.
x4 said:Corel not invest in cdr developing much.
Ok, how much have they invested, real numbers please?
What factual information is your opinion based upon?
Not being mean, just real.
Maybe he means, "effort". Not much effort invested. At least, that's how I read it. And I agree with that sentiment. I always have.
KuttyJoe said:Maybe he means, "effort". Not much effort invested. At least, that's how I read it. And I agree with that sentiment. I always have.
Now you got me curious. What did you use to measure "not much effort"? I mean how do you know?
I am asking because I do not recall your name as participating in the creation/testing of x6. I was there throughout and I totally dis agree with your statement. The effort put forward was extreme and extended beyond the normal, countless hours by so many people. I can say no more.
I say the effort was not enough but obviously I can't prove anything. You say the effort was extended and extreme, but obviously, you can't prove anything. It's interesting that you would attempt such an argument when you have no more proof than anyone else. What I do have though is the resulting products. I have experienced them over a period of about 2 decades. I also have competing products. I have all of their starting points so I can see how much they've progressed over time. So what I can measure extremely well is the result of all of their efforts. So what I focus on is the thing that matters. The result. You can talk all you want about somebody's efforts and accuse people of personal attacks. But what matters to people who spend money and buy products is the quality of the product they've bought.
If you want to talk about effort, you should look at the last 20 years. Look at where CorelDraw Suite was then and look at where it is today. Look at where Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator was 20 years ago and where they are today. Then you can say something realistic about effort.
Neither I, nor you can determine what Adobe and Corel developers have been doing with their time. What we can both see easily though is the result of their efforts. That's really what matters.
KuttyJoe said:If you want to talk about effort, you should look at the last 20 years. Look at where CorelDraw Suite was then and look at where it is today. Look at where Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator was 20 years ago and where they are today. Then you can say something realistic about effort.
I'm assuming that what you mean is development of features and improvements that have remiered in the applications. I'll concede that Adobe is better at marketing their products.
I'll also concede that Corel has held onto supporting older technology longet than I believe that they should have.
Howevr when it comes to general print, large/grand format, sign work in a professonal color managed environment CorelDRAW Graphics Suite X6 is second to none. I'll go a bit farther, if your in general print and sign work and you're using Adobe products good I need all the poorly prepared competition I can get..
For a few firsts, Corel was first with
Functional PS level 3 support, yes I know I was there at Seybold when Adobe used CoreDRAW to premeir PS level 3 printing
Live real transparency
150 x 150 ft work space
First to have a direct interface from the layout program (Draw) to image editor (Photo-PAINT) back to page layout
First to offer raster capabilities in the drawing program.
I could go on for days.
Everyday I see people in the sign industry struggle using Adobe products to output trade show booth displays, struggling with impropper use of transparency that forces the user to compromise on quality and just to rasterize the entire InDesign PDF. The same work in CorelDRAW is sent as raster, vector combination with higher quality output in the end
KuttyJoe said:Then you can say something realistic about effort.
I have posted a Photoshop image that is a prime example of where Adobe has taken Photoshop. See if you can tell what's technological issue are with this image. I'll tell you that almost all current images from Photoshop suffer from it.
KuttyJoe said:It's interesting that you would attempt such an argument when you have no more proof than anyone else.
I was there. I am an eye witness to what went into this product. I was directly involved. I personally spend countless hours there. The effort was not lacking, guaranteed. How much more proof do you need than a participating eye witness? Of course you can dismiss what I say, that is your choice and I will respect that. I mean you really do not know me or my creditability.
I do not wish to argue with anyone. If there is an issue with the pdf and eps thing perhaps, just perhaps it's lack of knowledge? See Dave M's book on color management. I asked to see the offending cdr because if something is broken I want to see and understand it.
I think you got production and marketing in the same thought and there is a big difference. I will agree Adobe is much more aggressive and put a lot more effort and dollars into their marketing, that is obvious to me. I have seen this over the same past 20 years. I attend a lot of trade shows such as NAB, video and print shows over the years and sadly watched Corel disappear from that scene. If I recall Photopaint was used in the original Spiderman production.
Draw has not fallen behind AI but that is a matter of work flow methodology and personal choice. I prefer Photoshop over Photopaint and I will also agree Photopaint needs a lot of attention to catch up. On the other hand PhotoPaint is not sold stand alone but is part of a graphic suite. No excuse in my eyes but I understand that.
KuttyJoe said:Neither I, nor you can determine what Adobe and Corel developers have been doing with their time
I know what Corel developer's were.are doing but I cannot speak to the Adobe developer's efforts, I have no idea good or bad. Judge the products for what they are. Thumbs up on Draw, thumbs up on Photoshop.
I think the real point of this thread was an issue with eps/psd files that got married up to "it's because lack of effort and investment" and a direct attack on "Corel masters" and their efforts here which are free and that is what took a good issue south as far as I am considered. Seems once again no good dead goes unpunished? Lets see the offending cdr and see what is really going on. As for the rest it's starting to sound like a political argument and we certainly have more than enough of that.
Again please don't take what I say personal, it's not. Lets address the issues and get them fixed if they exist and lets all help each other acquire working knowledge. We all do the same thing with the same sfuff.
Hi KuttyJoe,
You should fill out an application for the beta team. To me you would be an excellent candidate. Roll up your sleeves and really make a difference<G>
http://www.corel.com/corel/pages/index.jsp?pgid=9901280&storeKey=us&languageCode=en
KuttyJoe said: If you want to talk about effort, you should look at the last 20 years. Look at where CorelDraw Suite was then and look at where it is today. Look at where Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator was 20 years ago and where they are today. Then you can say something realistic about effort.
I wonder why "20 years" and not othe date, btw I will accept this date. 20 years ago, Adobe was a big company around the world, after develop the industry-standard language for printer: Postscript, and the PS and EPS file format, and there's not any other alternative. Also, Adobe develop the Type1 and Type 3 fonts, and the TrueType fonts, Adobe Photoshop was the most used software for image editing. (I'm not sure if it was 2.5 or 3.0 at this date) On the contrary, Illustrator still has not popularyty, under Mac the most used software was Aldus PageMaker and Aldus Freehand, Adobe said that the programs should be sold individually, it was not professional to develop a suite and things such as a Welcome screen or a Propierty bar was childish.
20 years ago, Corel (a small canadian company) launched CorelDRAW 4.0, adding new features such as multipage files (up to 999 pages) but the program has several bugs. It was the worstt and slowest version ever. After years of success, version 4.0 was a big step back. The prnt preview was enable by default when print, and it was very slow and it was not possible to disable it. Each previoius versions introduced a big amount of great features, but version 4 only add a few changes. The initial release has several problems with color separation (ie, the black output as 4 inks) and was useless until the service pack Still no success with Mac version.
20 years after, Adobe is still the industry standard based on the Postscript language, and still there's not alternative to this language. The PDF becomes a standard and replaces PS and EPS as the most used exchange files. All their programs has now a Welcome screen and Propierty bar, and now they sold their programs as a Suite. Photoshop is still the most used software for image editing After the purchase of Aldus and Macromedia, and the elimination of Freehand, Fireworks and others, Adobe is the only option in Mac. Although after the purchase of Macromedia (Dreamweaver, Flash, etc.) has a stranglehold on web design, has experienced severe economic crises in recent years, having to make several massive layoffs and redistribution of employees, so was forced to release interim versions (CS5.5) and shorten the time to market from 24 to 18 months. Recently changed its policy (Creative Suite to Creative Cloud), based exclusively on online subscription system.
20 years after, Corel has grown significantly in recent years, it has bought Micrografx, Metacreations, U-lead and several more companies, expanding its list of programs: Painter, VideoStudio, Designer (now CorelDRAW Technical suite), PaintShop Pro, AfterShot, CorelCAD, WordPerfect (Quattro Pro, Presentations, etc), PDF Fusion, WinDVD, Winzip, etc.offering a wide variety of solutions. Corel was acquired by Vector and then returned to the stock market. and has increased more than ten times the number of users in the last few years, becoming one of the most popular software companies around the world. The latest versions (X5, X6) have been the best sellers in its history and that have had greater success.